September 24, 2021


Speaker  00:00
Our solution provides next generation enabled feedback across a broad range of knowledge in order to engage staff with your vision. 

Ed Golod  00:05
What are they actually saying? Wait a minute, I don’t even understand this. 

Speaker  00:10
It helps you to connect with clients at various touch points. 

Ed Golod  00:13
What? Wait a minute, is this something that will help me? 

Speaker  00:16
Business schemas to add value and assist in achieving business objectives. 

Ed Golod  00:19
You got to be kidding. 

Speaker  00:21
Any thoughts or feedback on our solution.

Ed Golod 00:23
What’s the point in making? 

Speaker  00:28
Welcome to the SaaSy Thought Leadership podcast. The podcast that teaches you how to turn your technical expertise into revenue. Here’s your SaaSy hostess. Gloria Gunn.

Gloria Gunn  00:43
Welcome. I’m so glad that you decided to spend these. It’ll be about 30 minutes with us today. So buckle up, we’re gonna go ahead and set the stage for you. We have got with us and I’m so excited. Ed Golod, he is our CRO. Hey, how are you doing?

Ed Golod  00:56
Hey, how’s everybody doing?

Gloria Gunn  00:58
Yeah, this is gonna be a great show, isn’t it? I’m really excited. We’re gonna have some deep discussion on technical thought leadership, all things technical thought leadership, we’re gonna go into the what and the why, you know, kind of how this translating this technical information happens? Does it get lost in translation? And how do we prevent all that from happening? So buckle up, it’s going to be a lot of fun.
We’re going to give you some great information. And just to give you some context and perspective, let us pretend for just a minute. All right, I’m going to have Ed since you’re the guy, go ahead and read this. And you guys that are listening, go ahead and just kind of absorb it. Close your eyes, if you can, if you’re not in the car, and we’ll unpack it in just a second. So Ed, go.

Ed Golod  01:49
Hey, Susan, there’s a reason that I thought well, as you know, we’ve seen this year, and we’ve effectively met all our motion KPIs. We’ve also worked extremely hard on our future proofing. Hey, we’ve streamlined our methodologies and actualized our core values in order to roll them out in real terms. And yeah, okay.
We had to park this pilot program, and took it offline for a while while you were engaging with that Spanish solution Ricardo. Yeah, I know, I know, we agreed to archive Ricardo permanently. But going forward, I think we have a real opportunity to create a robust and sustainable narrative. Hey, will you merge with me?

Gloria Gunn  02:29
No, sorry, no, you’re already married. Right? So, I don’t know if you all were able to listen to that whole thing. Without getting tuned out. Probably you zoned out after the first two sentences. That was a long way to talk about and justify a marriage proposal. And, you know, obviously, it’s illustrating the ridiculous, right. But that is a lot of times how we talk when we’re presenting our technical information. And if you zoned out on that, imagine what your best prospects are doing? Isn’t that right?

Ed Golod  03:02
Yeah, they’re just basically shutting you down. And then people could argue, well, you know, I don’t talk like that. And I present, you know, my product and my solution. And I believe that’s the wrong thinking. We’re in a whole different world, you know, if you learn anything on this podcast, or whatever you’re reading, or whatever, you’re googling. One fact, that’s changed our world right now, Gloria. The digital ecosystem of how to work has been pulled forward. They say almost eight years. So with different people now, but buying and selling and living differently.

Gloria Gunn  03:38
Yeah, it’s impacting everything. It is. And if you lay all that on top of, look, we are technical solution providers, you know, we’ve got SaaS businesses, are we we do these kind of complex technical solutions, they take a little bit of explaining, right, we have to convey that information, that technical information to our prospects, and we need to educate them and have an establish our expertise and authority in such a way that our prospects can go and find the answers for themselves, basically.

Ed Golod  04:13
Yeah, and I love your point. I mean, this is very, very hard for the people we’re selling to. 

Gloria Gunn  04:19

Ed Golod  04:20
I mean, for a million years, you had a product you sold it. It’s the way commerce has run in this country since we were formed globally. Now, the customer is not only doing their own homework and their own research. We get that. We’ve known that Harvard Business reviews have been talking about that for years. However, they’re not only doing that on their own up to 80-90% independent research. They don’t want to hear the noise and they don’t want to be sold to. It’s sort of like two giant waves hitting together and now you have a tsunami. We don’t adapt to this. You’re going to end up swimming. sinking actually,

Gloria Gunn  05:01
Yeah. Because if you think about what happens when you’re just kind of going on, you know, talking about your solution, talking about how great it is. And they’re in a situation where they’re going, you know, I just want to find out what’s gonna work for me. I don’t want anybody telling me how great their thing is. And so it’s a different perspective. And the bottom line really is that it is mega noisy out there.
COVID has really exasperated the situation. And we’ve got everybody you know, they’re working from home, they’re online. And if their business wasn’t digital, they recognize that it had to be digital, and they’re all trying to penetrate the noise. You know, we’ve all got zoom fatigue, don’t we? 

Ed Golod  05:43
Oh yeah.

Gloria Gunn  05:44
We’ve got fatigue. I mean.

Ed Golod  05:45
We have kids screaming at us, the dogs barking.

Gloria Gunn  05:48
Exactly. And that impacts you know, what, how we consume information. So Ed there’s a great article that I read the other day, it was over at, and it was titled it was by Tony Zambito, we’ll go ahead and we’ll put the link in the show notes. But the title of it was, “B2B Buyer Content: Fatigue is a Real Problem”.
And basically, he talked about how the pandemic has worn us out mentally, emotionally, you know, it’s just worn us out. And his whole premise of the article, and I thought it was brilliant, was, you know, why would we consume information the same way? If the world as we know it has changed so drastically? Right?

Ed Golod  06:31
Oh, my goodness, that is such an amazing point. I get asked, literally 10, 20 times a day. So Ed. I hear this all the time, the word, the word there really hasn’t changed that much. And I reply, and they all diff, they fall off their chair Gloria, I reply with when in the history of commerce, I’ll go back 1000 years, for when in the history of commerce, has the seller had a sistaled focus, not move their head, not move their eyes, not bounce around, stay on point for eight hours a day.
They don’t get in the car, they don’t drive around, they don’t go to another meeting, they don’t go to a conference room. This drive for mass attention, because we’re on camera, making us in essence, like a TV newscaster is not what we do naturally. And it’s not what 99.99% of us have been trained for. So we’re fatigued. Can you imagine what’s going on? With the poor people on the other side of the camera?

Gloria Gunn  07:47
Yeah, well, you know, and that was this point that over a customer thought of that article, it was basically, you know, look, if you are pretending that this has not changed the way we consume information. And if you think that it hasn’t caused us to be overloaded, then you’re delusional. That’s really what he says. And any, he says, look, you have to reach out to buyers, where they are, where they are mentally, where they are emotionally, where they are, psychologically, that meets their needs, and what’s been happening with, you know, these businesses as they’re going, I can’t get the attention. I need to, you know, do more content more and more and more.
Doesn’t mean better, doesn’t mean that I need to necessarily resonate with people, I just, if you put more content than eventually someone’s going to see it, and then someone’s going to bounce on it, right. That’s what people are thinking. And what he’s saying is, dude, if we give them more, you know, that’s not necessarily better. It’s really just getting more and more noisy out there, just more and more and more. So what happens is you get ignored more.

Ed Golod  08:54
Absolutely. And this is such a great point. I’ve heard you bring this up in so many other podcasts that we’ve done. Why do we give them more content? Why don’t we give them something else? And the answer is, because we don’t have anything else to give them. If I’m selling SaaS software, to do HR management, and help manage your employees and lower your expenses and automate your processes. And I need to get through to people and I’ll engage you and me and I give them more content.
And somebody says don’t do that Ed. What else am I going to do? Well, the thing that we do, but this is what is so difficult, is if you’re an expert and an authority, you could have a conversation on the way things are changing now with the world to be in five years, where HR management is going in two years, maybe in the middle of the next election. You can have a point of view. Without that you’re just giving them more of the same. It’s like going into a store and buying dog food, and you want 20 pounds. And the clerk says, Hey, how about 500 pounds?

Gloria Gunn  10:08
Yeah, yeah, that’s, you know, 500 pounds is the answer, right? It’s not, it’s not 50 pounds or 20 pounds is 500 pounds. It’s such a smart point, because, you know, when you were saying about, because you don’t have anything else to give them, I’m going to go ahead and give you a story. Tell you a story. So what happened was, I wanted to look for, you know, basically, it was a data providing solution, just to see, you know, the one that we have, do, we want another one. And I went ahead, and I made the mistake of filling out, you know, the form, right. And, and so what, what I did, when I filled out the form is within probably two minutes of actually hitting the submit button, I get called right? And I got hounded. I got different calls, left a couple messages, then they realized, Oh, she’s not answering, she knows she’s recognized our number, so I’m going to do a different number.
And then it was hounding with the emails, you know, very, very aggressive selling. When all I really wanted was information so that I could kind of continue and make that decision myself. And what happened was, it was so intrusive, that it was such a turn off, because we’re told, you know, the first one that gets the lead, and then you have a better chance of, you know, closing them, etc. And we have a situation, you know, due to COVID, due to the pandemic, it’s really forced us to work at, you know, remotely homeschool our kids, essentially what we do is we merge work and home. And this has happened for the very first time for about 40% of the population.

Ed Golod  11:38

Gloria Gunn  11:39
People are fatigued in every way possible that you can be fatigued. And the answer for B2B solution providers has been no problem, you’re fatigued, you’re freaked out, we’re just going to shop more frequently. And eventually we’ll get hurt.

Ed Golod  11:52

Gloria Gunn  11:53
Does that make sense?

Ed Golod  11:55
Yeah, we’ll push through exactly right. And a really, really important point, really important, because I’ve been selling for a long time, is if you’re a buyer, in the last 15 years you have been doing more and more and more research, doing 10% 20%, the internet exploded. Now they can do all the research on your product, they can even get pricing if they’re moving forward, so they could engage themselves. So they’re not sold, if you will remember the old sat in the car, no negotiating, you come in, you buy your car, if they sell, serve themselves, that’s the problem, we have to learn how to not sell or pitch into.
But if they’re doing that, while at the same time the digital convergence is squeezing them, you have to look at your selling through a magnifying glass. You know, when your magnifying glass goes in the sun as a kid, it gets a fine point, then you can actually start a little fire, you have to focus down and broadcast more content, or more noise, it’s gasoline on a fire Gloria.

Gloria Gunn  13:05
Mm hmm. It just really doesn’t do it. Because what we really should be doing is we should be taking the time to figure out what it is who our buyers are, right? Like if we took just a second to kind of unpack all of this, and, you know, figure out how do we do this? How do we actually get in front and break through the noise and get through the zoom fatigue? And working from home? And all that right? And the answer is.
We need to kind of get in the head of our best prospects, you know, what are they going through? What is their emotional state of mind? What is their pain? Who are they? Right? How are we uniquely positioned to be able to fix their pain, you know, to provide them a solution, what makes us better than the others that are competition that’s you know, shouting loudly and often, etc, etc, right? All those things you have to do, so that your message gets heard, and I can tell you, versus shouting more and more, or positioning yourself as an authority and an expert.
That is where you maintain the best control over the entire end to end, you know, buyer’s journey process once you get involved. And that’s where you want to be in control. I don’t know if you guys and you’ve probably seen this Ed, you know, talk about the sales situations where you go in and you basically get led around by the prospect.

Ed Golod  14:43

Gloria Gunn  14:43
Whether they’re dictating the terms or dictating everything. And then at the very end they say, oh, I’ll think about it. Why did they say that right? What did they say when they say I’ll think about it? What is that a symptom of?

Ed Golod  14:57
Well, they’re maintaining control again, going back to the primitive brain. So let’s look at it more like a story. We all like stories, right? Everybody loves stories. Let’s look at a story of a guy that I used to work with, went over to Oracle, and part of their eirp systems. Yeah. And he was selling into mid market and predominantly CFOs. As a young guy, smart guy, and I said to him, Hey, man, have you ever been a CFO? He goes in. I’ve never been a CFO, you know that? I said, Okay. Have you ever worked for a CFO? No, I haven’t done that. Have you ever been in a boardroom with the CFO was on fire, because he’s getting hammered for lack of, you know, profits? And, you know, results? No, I haven’t. But I know, stuff inside and out. He said Ed I don’t understand why I need to do all that. It’s not needed.
I said, Yeah. And in 2016, you’re right, I’m wrong. 2021 what you think that CFO needs to be doing to buy your product, and manage ERP better, may not be what you’re thinking, because you were trained, hey, we can save you money, lower these costs. Maybe he’s having problems getting cash, maybe he’s having problems raising capital, maybe he’s having compliance problems with his employees who are not getting proper protection. 

Because of the pandemic, the list goes on and on. And on. So your CFO has become a different man in many ways. We’re a different woman. I think that’s what you’re also bringing up to Gloria, today, you need to know this and deep dive and you don’t want to do the work. Hey, no problem. But don’t expect your phone to ring.

Gloria Gunn  16:42
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Don’t expect your phone to ring. And if you happen to just get lucky and it does ring and you do get an appointment, then you know you will be, you will not be dictating the terms of the sales conversation, you will be led, instead of leading you will be led and that’s really you know, the bottom line and all that. So, if you know, it’s a fascinating subject, and we could go on for hours and hours on it.
And really, what it boils down to, you know, if you want to kind of say what practical application, what practical advice can we give someone Ed on? Okay, this is really interesting stuff, Gloria and Ed, what would I do? How do I? You know, what’s the first step? What should I do? What would your advice be to them?

Ed Golod  17:27
You know, my mother used to say that I talked too much. But I was not lazy. And now, I still talk a lot, but I’m definitely not lazy. But I go for the easy one. The easy, non lazy answer is. Reach out to your existing customers. If you don’t have any, go talk to another rep and borrow one of theirs. And ask them. How has their customer buying journey changed, or morphed? Give me two or three things, please, on what you’re doing different, to fix some of these problems as the easy fast way. And once you know that, you can adjust what you’re selling. So you can do this in a day or two days. And it’s not complicated.

Gloria Gunn  18:16
Yeah, yeah. I think the bottom line is that, you know, you have to be able to really understand who your buyer is, right? Who your best prospects are, deeply not just oh, I you know, I deal with manufacturing firms, but you have to kind of know, not just the title and all that, but what what, what’s their pain points? How are you uniquely positioned, you know, you have to let your expertise shine, you have to know how your solution can uniquely make their pain go away, and how it adds value. So you need to be able to articulate that in a way that shows your expertise.
And that shows that you are an authority in what you do, so that they look up to your insights and your information. And then it becomes about how they’re dealing with an expert. Now you don’t know, you are the leader in the situation. And that’s ultimately what you want is you want to be the leader in every sales situation with your prospect, you want to guide them to your conclusion on how you can help them. And that’s really how you do it is getting a great understanding of who they are, their pain, and then being able to articulate that with your best positioning.

Ed Golod  19:29
So what you’re really saying is if you do all that, you’ll be more confident, and you’ll feel stronger about giving them real expert ideas and advice, just not a product. So in essence, if I listened to what you’re saying, Gloria, I become more confident, which means I’ll then generate more trust with people. I love what you love where you’re going with that.

Gloria Gunn  19:52
Yeah, you’ll be more confident, but not only that, but you’ll be perceived as that expert. So you know, we’ve all been through this right? You know, and I think about it, I just kind of like, Oh my god, I just want to, like crawl in a hole. And just like, I wish it would swallow me up. We’ve all been in sales meetings, where we thought, you know, yeah, things are going great and I’m ready, I’ve prepared etc, etc.
And then you know what, what ends up happening is the person will get on, you know, across while on, we got like, a few minutes or I’ve only got 15 minutes, you know, hurry up, and then they interrupt and, you know, ask all these questions and be, you know, combative or whatever. And, you know, we end up kind of, you know, sinking like a dog with the tail between our legs. And you know, and then at the end, they’re like, Well, let me think about it. You know, that’s a situation where you are not in control. Let’s put it that way. When that happened…

Ed Golod  20:46
You have a problem then.

Gloria Gunn  20:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are being led, you are not in control, you’re in a subservient or submissive position to your prospect. And you don’t want that. You want them to look to you as the leader, and the expert. And when the expert speaks, I listen. And this is what the expert says I should do. And because I trust them, and I know that they’re an expert, based on the authority and what they say and how they position themselves, I’m going to listen to them. That’s what you want. And that’s the bottom line.

Ed Golod  21:15
Well said.

Gloria Gunn  21:16
Yeah, yep. So in this segment, what I do is I like to take a look at, you know, interesting things in tech. And just have a conversation about some stuff. And we’re gonna have this article in the show notes. But I thought this was fascinating because I had a conversation with a client about SaaS spending, right. And they were saying, you know, SaaS purchases, he was telling me SaaS purchases, they get buried in discretionary income all the time. And, you know, you end up getting what he called sassed, right? It’s where you, you end up, your company has all these subscriptions. And you, they kind of end up paying, you know, everybody has these hidden subscriptions, they put them on their expense reports.
And so you know, you’ve got different people using different tools. There’s no consistency, all that can have really big problems in an organization. And I thought that was fascinating. I saw in TechCrunch, where there’s a company, I think it’s based out of the UK, called Cledara. They are a SaaS purchase and management platform. We are now purchasing so many SaaS products in our individual businesses that we need this purchase and management platform that can track all of our purchases. So we know, you know, Oh, is this working? How long have we been paying for it? You know, are people using it? All that type of stuff. I just found it fascinating that we’re to that point that we get sassed so much and so often that, you know, there’s a market for this purchase management platform that can actually track your SaaS purchases for your enterprise. Fascinating stuff.

Ed Golod  22:59
Yeah, absolutely.

Gloria Gunn  23:01

Ed Golod  23:02
Well, SaaS is where the whole. Everything is SaaS, everything we do is Software as a Service, if you will, right?

Gloria Gunn  23:08
Yeah. And if you don’t watch it, you can, you know, especially you’ve got a bunch of reps say, and you know, you give them expense accounts, and they can just kind of bury their little tools and their expense accounts. The problem with that, I think, and I was just talking to somebody about this relating to, you know, kind of sales process and systems is that if you have everybody using their own tool sets, there’s no standardization of processes and stuff, right? And so you kind of lose some organizational knowledge on how to do things, the best way, if everybody’s doing them differently, right? 

Ed Golod  23:43

Gloria Gunn  23:44
So anyway, we could go on with that, too, but we won’t. So, you know, here’s a situation, if you’re the leader of a business, and you have a lot of expertise, and you have tons of insight in your field, and you know that you were only able to pre educate and position yourself as that expert authority, where you would be in control and those sales situations, and you can kind of articulate your technical solution in that way. Then, if you’d like to have a discussion with us, then we’ve got all of our contact information in the show notes. Feel free to reach out. Happy to talk to you.

Ed Golod  24:27
We’re there for you. That’s a fun time.

Gloria Gunn  24:30
I know. Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, we’re just about out of time, folks. And it’s really our hope that you learn something that you didn’t know before. Maybe it got just a little bit smarter on the best way for you to educate, inform and position yourself. So that your audience will gravitate to your solution and look to you as that source that makes their business pain go away. That expert that makes your business pain go away. Those are the best sales, when they really trust you that you’re going to help them. So reach out to me on LinkedIn, reach out to Ed on LinkedIn, ask us anything. We’re really just here to help and add value till next time. We’ve got Gloria here.

Ed Golod  25:13
And Ed Golod

Gloria Gunn  25:14
Over and out.

Ed Golod  25:15
See yah.

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